"...the thorn bush was burning with fire, but the thorn bush was not being consumed..." Exodus 3:2 http://www.chabad.org/parshah/torahreading.asp?AID=15559&p=4&showrashi=true
The bush is a metaphor for the Jewish People. The burning bush was typical of the indestructibility of Israel, just as the bush, though continually burning, was not consumed, so would the fire of Egyptian persecution and oppression of other nations be unable to consume Israel.--Exod. Rabba 2.
Midrash 2
Just as a person can thrust his hand downward into a thorn bush, but cannot extricate it easily because of the direction of the thorns, so too the Israelites were able to go down into Egypt easily, become ensnared, and it was extremely difficult to extricate themselves.
Your Questions:
1. Is either Diaspora Jewry or Israeli Jewry more important? 2. Can we Jews thrive together in the Diaspora and in Israel? 3. Can one community exist without the other? Does Diaspora Jewry need Israeli Jewry and vice versa?
To me, we are all one Jewish People. We have Near Eastern origins. We have a history in the Promised Land. We survived for almost 2 millennia in Diaspora after being exiled by the Romans. And, within many of our lifetimes, a modern state of Israel was established once again. Diaspora Jewry are Jews. Israeli Jewry are Jews. Neither people are more important than the other. Every Jewish life has equal importance, regardless of where (s)he lives.
Can Jews thrive in both Diaspora and Israel? Certainly. Look around. Jews are thriving in both Israel and in the United States, as just one example of a vibrant Diaspora Jewish community.
Can one community exist without the other? Any Jew over 62 years of age knows Diaspora Jewry can exist without Israeli Jewry. Initially after the Jewish State was established, many felt that Diaspora Jewry was needed to play critical financial and logistical roles in sustaining the State. Today, while Diaspora Jewry contributes importantly to Israel's welfare, the Jewish State is here to stay with or without the Diaspora Jewish community. Israeli Jewry would survive without Diaspora Jewry.
We have been talking about the Jewish People and Jewish Communities. While Israel, the Jewish State, implies an Israeli Jewish Community, it is first and foremost a Land, a nation state, a Jewish homeland. Herzl's Der Judenstaat was impelled by European anti-Semitism. Anti-Semitism served as the "propelling force" behind the design of the Jewish State. Today, while anti-Semitism very definitely continues to thrive around the world, there are large Diaspora communities where it does not play a significant role in Jewish life at all. Herzl would have had difficulty making a case for Altneuland were Jews all living in 21st Century Scarsdale.
Perhaps Joseph's Egypt was as welcoming a community as America is today. Midrash 2 illustrates it was difficult to extricate oneself from Egypt. Ensnarement can take the form of persecution and enslavement. Ensnarement can also be seen as becoming captive within a welcoming culture. In many respects, I see Reform and Conservative Judaism on the front lines in the battle to retain the religious, cultural and intellectual integrity of our people in the face of a welcoming Diaspora ensnarement. Oddly, these branches of modern Judaism increasingly serve a similar purpose within the secular Israeli Jewish Community.
Israel is the Promised Land. Israel is the Land of our ancestors. While Jews can and have survived for many centuries outside of Israel, Israel is our homeland. While I can see Diaspora and Israeli Jewish Communities as independent, I consider the Jewish State of Israel as an imperative. All Jews need Israel.
My family tasted 20th Century European anti-Semitism first hand. Herzl's conception of Zionism rings very true to us. But, I would argue that Israel's centrality to Judaism and Jewish identity applies equally to Jews from all over the world--whether living in welcoming communities or within persecution. It therefore matters little whether one believes that one day another pharaoh may arise who knew not Joseph.
The Land of Israel is a core fiber within every Jew. Since 1948, every Jew has an obligation to sustain the Jewish State. Some do so by living there, building the economy, and putting their lives on the line for the homeland. Others who do not live there need to find other ways to sustain the State.
I beg to differ with David. He says, " I see Reform and Conservative Judaism on the front lines in the battle to retain the religious, cultural and intellectual integrity of our people in the face of a welcoming Diaspora ensnarement." These movements are the very ensnarement he seeks to avoid. It's the bush with its thorns aimed inward to make their extrication thereafter that much more difficult. To reform is assimilate - is to dilute - and the greater the dilution, the greater the ensnarement, and the harder to rid oneself of the culture at large. This is the story of Hanuka.
And why did he exclude the Orthodox movement? What does this omission tell us?
The other thing is that you cannot reform and expect that to reach Jews to make them come into the fold. You must take the Jew to Torah, and not the Torah to the Jew.
I speak of this more elaborately at: 1) http://hezbos.blogspot.com/2009/12/lesson-from-dreidel.html
On the issue of Zionism, and Herzl - what this has to do with anything, I don't know. Unless you want to ignore the millennia of history of the Jewish people. And also, and especially so, if you want to exclude G-d from this history and the intimacy of the Jewish people with their G-d. As if it was sheer human wisdom that brought us back our country and nothing else belongs in the formula. Much like the very first meeting ever in the Isareli Knesset, when their issue at hand was whether or not to include the word G-d into their Declaration of Independence. They voted "NO". So much for Zionism and Herzl.
Quite a statement that Reform and Conservative movements are on the firing line, so to speak. Let me first address that issue. One of my granddaughters is a freshman at college and had little interchange with Jewish contemporaries because she went through a school system where there were very few Jewish kids. Upon arrival at Univ. of Rochester she made friends with a group of Jewish kids and has celebrated Shabbat at the Chabad house. No proselytizing, just providing a wholesome environment. Is Chabadd on the cutting edge of providing a Jewish environment? I heartily think so and this is part of the Lubavitch movement. What troubles me is that many who have been brought up in a strictly Reform atmosphere sometimes show little understanding for the other side of the spectrum. Judaism is like a mantle of many colors, not unlike Joseph's famous "coat of many colors" and it behooves us to look at and find the many redeeming features of all of the variations of Judaism. Now as to whether we Diaspora Jews can survive with or without Israel is a question steeped in your beliefs and background. From a personal point of view Israel is "central" to the Jewish people, and one of the more disturbing situations, to me and many others, is the ferocity of other Diaspora Jews dictating and demanding that the Israelis follow their wishes and demands. Whatever happened to democracy and the people of that democracy deciding the direction they want to go in, by vote. Yes I do not believe that one community can "effectively" thrive without the other. Just remember, we need Israel as much as they need us, without preconditions.
I have to believe Rabbi Blake meant to say something other than the literal words of his question: "Can one community exist WITHOUT the other?" He was at the very end of his clip and was going off. He must have meant to ask a different question but had no time to elaborate.
After all, we Jews in the diaspora have been around for nearly two millennia without the Jews in The Land of Israel, which even some 100 years ago was mostly a wasteland (see http://hezbos.blogspot.com/2009/09/torah-keeps-its-promise-to-yearning.html).
Can one community exist WITHOUT the other? That's like asking, can a person live by removing one of his arms.
ReplyDeleteAs for the "longevity" of the Jewish people - the correct word is "eternity".
Enjoyed your discourse.
My notes from your remarks:
ReplyDelete"...the thorn bush was burning with fire, but the thorn bush was not being consumed..."
Exodus 3:2 http://www.chabad.org/parshah/torahreading.asp?AID=15559&p=4&showrashi=true
Midrash 1 (Shemot Rabba)
http://www.sacred-texts.com/jud/tmm/tmm08.htm
The bush is a metaphor for the Jewish People.
The burning bush was typical of the indestructibility of Israel, just as the bush, though continually burning, was not consumed, so would the fire of Egyptian persecution and oppression of other nations be unable to consume Israel.--Exod. Rabba 2.
Midrash 2
Just as a person can thrust his hand downward into a thorn bush, but cannot extricate it easily because of the direction of the thorns, so too the Israelites were able to go down into Egypt easily, become ensnared, and it was extremely difficult to extricate themselves.
Your Questions:
1. Is either Diaspora Jewry or Israeli Jewry more important?
2. Can we Jews thrive together in the Diaspora and in Israel?
3. Can one community exist without the other? Does Diaspora Jewry need Israeli Jewry and vice versa?
To me, we are all one Jewish People. We have Near Eastern origins. We have a history in the Promised Land. We survived for almost 2 millennia in Diaspora after being exiled by the Romans. And, within many of our lifetimes, a modern state of Israel was established once again. Diaspora Jewry are Jews. Israeli Jewry are Jews. Neither people are more important than the other. Every Jewish life has equal importance, regardless of where (s)he lives.
ReplyDeleteCan Jews thrive in both Diaspora and Israel? Certainly. Look around. Jews are thriving in both Israel and in the United States, as just one example of a vibrant Diaspora Jewish community.
Can one community exist without the other? Any Jew over 62 years of age knows Diaspora Jewry can exist without Israeli Jewry. Initially after the Jewish State was established, many felt that Diaspora Jewry was needed to play critical financial and logistical roles in sustaining the State. Today, while Diaspora Jewry contributes importantly to Israel's welfare, the Jewish State is here to stay with or without the Diaspora Jewish community. Israeli Jewry would survive without Diaspora Jewry.
We have been talking about the Jewish People and Jewish Communities. While Israel, the Jewish State, implies an Israeli Jewish Community, it is first and foremost a Land, a nation state, a Jewish homeland. Herzl's Der Judenstaat was impelled by European anti-Semitism. Anti-Semitism served as the "propelling force" behind the design of the Jewish State. Today, while anti-Semitism very definitely continues to thrive around the world, there are large Diaspora communities where it does not play a significant role in Jewish life at all. Herzl would have had difficulty making a case for Altneuland were Jews all living in 21st Century Scarsdale.
Perhaps Joseph's Egypt was as welcoming a community as America is today. Midrash 2 illustrates it was difficult to extricate oneself from Egypt. Ensnarement can take the form of persecution and enslavement. Ensnarement can also be seen as becoming captive within a welcoming culture. In many respects, I see Reform and Conservative Judaism on the front lines in the battle to retain the religious, cultural and intellectual integrity of our people in the face of a welcoming Diaspora ensnarement. Oddly, these branches of modern Judaism increasingly serve a similar purpose within the secular Israeli Jewish Community.
Israel is the Promised Land. Israel is the Land of our ancestors. While Jews can and have survived for many centuries outside of Israel, Israel is our homeland. While I can see Diaspora and Israeli Jewish Communities as independent, I consider the Jewish State of Israel as an imperative. All Jews need Israel.
My family tasted 20th Century European anti-Semitism first hand. Herzl's conception of Zionism rings very true to us. But, I would argue that Israel's centrality to Judaism and Jewish identity applies equally to Jews from all over the world--whether living in welcoming communities or within persecution. It therefore matters little whether one believes that one day another pharaoh may arise who knew not Joseph.
The Land of Israel is a core fiber within every Jew. Since 1948, every Jew has an obligation to sustain the Jewish State. Some do so by living there, building the economy, and putting their lives on the line for the homeland. Others who do not live there need to find other ways to sustain the State.
I beg to differ with David. He says, " I see Reform and Conservative Judaism on the front lines in the battle to retain the religious, cultural and intellectual integrity of our people in the face of a welcoming Diaspora ensnarement." These movements are the very ensnarement he seeks to avoid. It's the bush with its thorns aimed inward to make their extrication thereafter that much more difficult. To reform is assimilate - is to dilute - and the greater the dilution, the greater the ensnarement, and the harder to rid oneself of the culture at large. This is the story of Hanuka.
ReplyDeleteAnd why did he exclude the Orthodox movement? What does this omission tell us?
The other thing is that you cannot reform and expect that to reach Jews to make them come into the fold. You must take the Jew to Torah, and not the Torah to the Jew.
I speak of this more elaborately at:
1) http://hezbos.blogspot.com/2009/12/lesson-from-dreidel.html
2)http://hezbos.blogspot.com/2009/12/war-waged-to-preserve-jewish.html
3)http://hezbos.blogspot.com/2009/09/this-graph-seen-at-matzav-based-on.html
On the issue of Zionism, and Herzl - what this has to do with anything, I don't know. Unless you want to ignore the millennia of history of the Jewish people. And also, and especially so, if you want to exclude G-d from this history and the intimacy of the Jewish people with their G-d. As if it was sheer human wisdom that brought us back our country and nothing else belongs in the formula. Much like the very first meeting ever in the Isareli Knesset, when their issue at hand was whether or not to include the word G-d into their Declaration of Independence. They voted "NO". So much for Zionism and Herzl.
Quite a statement that Reform and Conservative movements are on the firing line, so to speak. Let me first address that issue. One of my granddaughters is a freshman at college and had little interchange with Jewish contemporaries because she went through a school system where there were very few Jewish kids. Upon arrival at Univ. of Rochester she made friends with a group of Jewish kids and has celebrated Shabbat at the Chabad house. No proselytizing, just providing a wholesome environment. Is Chabadd on the cutting edge of providing a Jewish environment? I heartily think so and this is part of the Lubavitch movement. What troubles me is that many who have been brought up in a strictly Reform atmosphere sometimes show little understanding for the other side of the spectrum. Judaism is like a mantle of many colors, not unlike Joseph's famous "coat of many colors" and it behooves us to look at and find the many redeeming features of all of the variations of Judaism.
ReplyDeleteNow as to whether we Diaspora Jews can survive with or without Israel is a question steeped in your beliefs and background. From a personal point of view Israel is "central" to the Jewish people, and one of the more disturbing situations, to me and many others, is the ferocity of other Diaspora Jews dictating and demanding that the Israelis follow their wishes and demands. Whatever happened to democracy and the people of that democracy deciding the direction they want to go in, by vote. Yes I do not believe that one community can "effectively" thrive without the other. Just remember, we need Israel as much as they need us, without preconditions.
I have to believe Rabbi Blake meant to say something other than the literal words of his question: "Can one community exist WITHOUT the other?" He was at the very end of his clip and was going off. He must have meant to ask a different question but had no time to elaborate.
ReplyDeleteAfter all, we Jews in the diaspora have been around for nearly two millennia without the Jews in The Land of Israel, which even some 100 years ago was mostly a wasteland (see http://hezbos.blogspot.com/2009/09/torah-keeps-its-promise-to-yearning.html).