We saw an example of what you speak about of a few weeks ago, in the portion of Shemot.
Once it was discovered Moses killed an Egyptian (who persecuted a Jew), Pharoah ordered his execution. With the help of divine intervention, Moses managed to escape and fled Egypt. One source says he was 12 years old (Sifsei Chachomim, Ex. 3:18); Another says he was 18 (Sefer Hayashar, p. 211). At any rate, he was a youngster at the time. By the time Moses returned to Egypt, he was about 80 years old.
Discovery of the Egyptian's murder that forced Moses to flee came as a consequence of two Jews squealing the information to Pharoah. That is to say, because Datan and Aviram tattled on another Jew, opening their mouths when they didn't have to, this led to Moses' absence for a duration of over 60 years!
It was thanks to young Moses, a prince in the palace of Pharoah, that Egypt instituted for enslaved Jews one day in the week to be their day of rest - the Shabbat day. It was, thanks to Moses, that the Egyptian rapist and torturer was killed. Imagine then how much more he could have helped the Jews had he remained within their sphere for a period of over 60 years.
Yet banished he was - and all because of the blabber of two Jews. And not just any two Jews, for these two were the worst among the Jews. Nevertheless, we see the extraordinary power blabbing has, even by the worst of Jewish elements, with its effect on the highest of Jewish personalities.
If the gossip of a lowlife has such detrimental force, imagine how much more injurious could be the gossip of a finer class.
Therefore, of the immense power of a Jew's "לשון הרע" we should take note and take heed!
It is not for nothing God placed two sets of "guardrails" in front of man's tongue. You first have to breach the lips, and then the teeth, before the tongue can begin to wag. The little wag of a Jewish tongue can whip the daylights out of another Jew. So the Jew must be careful to restrain what he exhales from his open mouth. For bad-mouthing another Jew has the power to kill.
If a Lashon Hara Moderator were to appear on the WWW, I wonder what percent of web traffic would remain and what percent of digital tongues would end up clipped? On that happy note, good morning all...
To shift gears back to learning and Torah, what does our tradition say about the difference between speaking lashon hara vs writing it?
I imagine lashon hara can escape unwary mouths much more easily than a penned or typed equivalent. But, the latter can be seen as far more permanent.
Interesting question anonymous, would it be any different since one may not consider it the same as passing through the teeth, the lips and being exhaled through the mouth? However, it still would be passed from head to hand with perhaps more pause and expression. A heavier and longer sound, a more malicious squeal. The permanence is the same whether by noise or by note as each would have voiced an untruth marking anothers true self. Neither is nice, nor necessary. Perhaps there is something to be said for stopping, stepping and smiling. Stop to think, step into their shoes, and smile for the gift of saving life.
For me (non-creative) writing is not a haphazard exercise. It is (at its best) structured thinking and communicating, putting pen to paper or fingertip to key, reading, editing, rereading, reediting, etc. When a piece of writing is produced or released, it is unlikely that lashon hara has occurred by chance.
In speech, it seems to me that it is easier for things to be said inadvertently.
Therefore, to my thinking, our Tradition should come down harder on written forms of lashon hara or rechilut. If verbal lashon hara can be punishable by death, then I don't want to think what's in store for Internet trolls and flame artists. :)
In the Van, you mean we stoned the lady by mistake?! :( OK. I confess I made an overly literal and incomplete reading of:
מסכת פאה פרק א תוספתא ב
Tractate Peah, Chapter 1 Tosefta 2
For these [evil] things they collect interest from the person in this world and the principal (i.e. main punishment) remains for the World to Come: for idol worship, for illicit sexual relations, and for murder. And for gossip [the damage and punishment are] equivalent to them all.
א,ב אלו הדברים נפרעין מן האדם בעולם הזה והקרן קיימת לו לעולם הבא על ע"ז ועל ג"ע ועל שפיכת דמים ועל לשה"ר כנגד כולם
I suppose it makes no difference, so long as both scenarios offer the same opportunity to ask for an apology, or that the number or people involved, hearing it or reading it, remain the same. IN ESSENCE, Lashon Hara is lashon hara, no matter how it expresses itself.
Thanks, In The Van. Practically speaking, I find it hard to see how some lashon hara can ever be undone through an apology. Once out in public, it can be close to impossible to correct. I have experienced this first hand recently. I was one of many witnesses to the lashon hara (technically, rechilut). The victim who was not present is very close to me. I guess if done properly, the “sinner” needs to apologize to the 3rd party victim, whom he does not know personally, in front of all of the witnesses. That is a scenario that can be very hard to set up. Oddly, in this real life example, verbal lashon hara is more challenging to achieve forgiveness than written lashon hara.
Very nicely said, Rabbi Blake.
ReplyDeleteWe saw an example of what you speak about of a few weeks ago, in the portion of Shemot.
Once it was discovered Moses killed an Egyptian (who persecuted a Jew), Pharoah ordered his execution. With the help of divine intervention, Moses managed to escape and fled Egypt. One source says he was 12 years old (Sifsei Chachomim, Ex. 3:18); Another says he was 18 (Sefer Hayashar, p. 211). At any rate, he was a youngster at the time. By the time Moses returned to Egypt, he was about 80 years old.
Discovery of the Egyptian's murder that forced Moses to flee came as a consequence of two Jews squealing the information to Pharoah. That is to say, because Datan and Aviram tattled on another Jew, opening their mouths when they didn't have to, this led to Moses' absence for a duration of over 60 years!
It was thanks to young Moses, a prince in the palace of Pharoah, that Egypt instituted for enslaved Jews one day in the week to be their day of rest - the Shabbat day. It was, thanks to Moses, that the Egyptian rapist and torturer was killed. Imagine then how much more he could have helped the Jews had he remained within their sphere for a period of over 60 years.
Yet banished he was - and all because of the blabber of two Jews. And not just any two Jews, for these two were the worst among the Jews. Nevertheless, we see the extraordinary power blabbing has, even by the worst of Jewish elements, with its effect on the highest of Jewish personalities.
If the gossip of a lowlife has such detrimental force, imagine how much more injurious could be the gossip of a finer class.
Therefore, of the immense power of a Jew's "לשון הרע" we should take note and take heed!
It is not for nothing God placed two sets of "guardrails" in front of man's tongue. You first have to breach the lips, and then the teeth, before the tongue can begin to wag. The little wag of a Jewish tongue can whip the daylights out of another Jew. So the Jew must be careful to restrain what he exhales from his open mouth. For bad-mouthing another Jew has the power to kill.
If a Lashon Hara Moderator were to appear on the WWW, I wonder what percent of web traffic would remain and what percent of digital tongues would end up clipped? On that happy note, good morning all...
ReplyDeleteTo shift gears back to learning and Torah, what does our tradition say about the difference between speaking lashon hara vs writing it?
I imagine lashon hara can escape unwary mouths much more easily than a penned or typed equivalent. But, the latter can be seen as far more permanent.
Interesting question anonymous, would it be any different since one may not consider it the same as passing through the teeth, the lips and being exhaled through the mouth? However, it still would be passed from head to hand with perhaps more pause and expression. A heavier and longer sound, a more malicious squeal.
ReplyDeleteThe permanence is the same whether by noise or by note as each would have voiced an untruth marking anothers true self. Neither is nice, nor necessary. Perhaps there is something to be said for stopping, stepping and smiling. Stop to think, step into their shoes, and smile for the gift of saving life.
-jaira
For me (non-creative) writing is not a haphazard exercise. It is (at its best) structured thinking and communicating, putting pen to paper or fingertip to key, reading, editing, rereading, reediting, etc. When a piece of writing is produced or released, it is unlikely that lashon hara has occurred by chance.
ReplyDeleteIn speech, it seems to me that it is easier for things to be said inadvertently.
Therefore, to my thinking, our Tradition should come down harder on written forms of lashon hara or rechilut. If verbal lashon hara can be punishable by death, then I don't want to think what's in store for Internet trolls and flame artists. :)
DavidS
David, wherefrom do you conclude,
ReplyDelete"verbal lashon hara can be punishable by death"?
That it can "kill" should be taken metaphorically;
In the sense that it can ruin another person's life.
An apology could well be the solution, and it does
not warrant a special court of 23 judges for a
capital crime!
In the Van, you mean we stoned the lady by mistake?!
ReplyDelete:(
OK. I confess I made an overly literal and incomplete reading of:
מסכת פאה פרק א
תוספתא ב
Tractate Peah, Chapter 1
Tosefta 2
For these [evil] things they collect interest from the person in this world and the principal (i.e. main
punishment) remains for the World to Come: for idol worship, for illicit sexual relations, and for murder. And for gossip [the damage and punishment are] equivalent to them all.
א,ב אלו הדברים נפרעין מן האדם בעולם הזה והקרן קיימת לו לעולם הבא על ע"ז ועל ג"ע ועל שפיכת דמים ועל לשה"ר כנגד כולם
Source:
http://www.toseftaonline.org/english_translation/tosefta_peah_chapter_1.pdf ; http://www.mechon-mamre.org/b/f/f12.htm
PS--On a more serious note, In the Van, from your knowledge, is there a distinction between tongue and pen?
David
I suppose it makes no difference, so long as both scenarios offer the same opportunity to ask for an apology, or that the number or people involved, hearing it or reading it, remain the same. IN ESSENCE, Lashon Hara is lashon hara, no matter how it expresses itself.
ReplyDeleteThanks, In The Van. Practically speaking, I find it hard to see how some lashon hara can ever be undone through an apology. Once out in public, it can be close to impossible to correct. I have experienced this first hand recently. I was one of many witnesses to the lashon hara (technically, rechilut). The victim who was not present is very close to me. I guess if done properly, the “sinner” needs to apologize to the 3rd party victim, whom he does not know personally, in front of all of the witnesses. That is a scenario that can be very hard to set up. Oddly, in this real life example, verbal lashon hara is more challenging to achieve forgiveness than written lashon hara.
ReplyDeleteKhag Sameakh,
David